YB Fuziah & Tan Keng Liang LYNAS Debate - Chronology of Twitter exchange

Here is the Twitter feed between @Anaszubedy @Fuziah 99 @Tankengliang produced as fully as possible in chronological order

8 March 2012

@Fuziah 99 : What are u rattling abt? We are still discussing on the rules. RT @tankengliang:No point imposing new conditions on daily basis @anaszubedy

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy Anyway, I hav been too nice 2 agree most of @fuziah99 request. But her new conditions on daily basis must end.Let's move forward

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy never hav I encounter such fickle minded debater.That's giving @fuziah99 the benefit of doubt she's not finding excuse 2back out

@Tankengliang: @AnasZubedy she want debate lots of other ppl too..ranging from MOSTI Minister,MB Pahang, @tilianker ,Dr Rosli,etc ..not sure PM @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 sorry, it was not her, its me. She wanted to debate CheRosli, tot might as well get into yr team. My bad - apology:)

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy wow....now, she even want to decide who should be in my team & expert for the debate? what else she want? @fuziah99

@Tankengliang: can we get @fuziah99 confirm whether still want debate me on Lynas or back out? No point imposing new conditions on daily basis @anaszubedy

@Fuziah 99 : It will be good if TKL can get dr che rosli. RT @AnasZubedy: @tankengliang YBFuziah's idea 2 include CheRosli in2 d opposing team

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang YBFuziah's idea 2 include CheRosli in2 d opposing team is brilliant 2 depoliticize d debate. Hope TKL can get him :)

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @kerismalaya @tankengliang it is my hope that this debate is abt finding d best solutions instead of politics :)

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @kerismalaya @tankengliang if Dr Che Rosli is in TKL's team, we break d idea of politics of PR-BN completely, but show truth:)

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @kerismalaya @tankengliang since YB interested include Che Rosli,can TKL try 2 get him 2b his expert panel.YB 2 find an equal 1 TQ

@Fuziah 99 : Anjur lah! RT @kerismalaya: yb @fuziah99,xpe la dh @anaszubedy nk organize.. Cuma sy rasa elok yb debate dgn che rosli je..

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Good news, my PA will be uploading tweet chrono on all our tweets on d subject & updating it, this aft onwards :)

@Fuziah 99 : Stop the crap. RT @tankengliang: - @anaszubedy No issue if @fuziah99 want pull out. It's difficult 4 her 2 substantiate her allegation against Lynas in d presence of experts

@Tankengliang: after @fuziah99 accepted the debate with me, her tone started to change when the organizer @anaszubedy said each side must bring an expert

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @kerismalaya @tankengliang YB Fuziah, do u want to pull out of d debate that i am organising? If yes pls be upfront. tQ

@Fuziah 99 : So many nak debate. but not many yg boleh anjur a good one! RT @kerismalaya: yb @fuziah99,xpe la dh @anaszubedy nk organize.. Cuma sy rasa elok yb debate dgn che rosli je..

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang TKL proposed return 2 - 1 debater, 1 expert but follow yr time suggestion - 20 m each. 5 m rebut, 20 in 4 expert-OK?

@Fuziah 99 : @kerismalaya wants me organise for me debate with dr che rosli or TLK. @AnasZubedy do u think you can work together with @kerismalaya?

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang LOL! Fuziah,pls make it easy 4 d debate 2 happen. Stop adding things. It i not perfect, but good enuf 2show truth:)

@Fuziah 99 : Manage time? Susah ckp dgn org tak bnyak kerja ni !!RT @AnasZubedy: we all hv limitations, time included. Let's manage time.. @kerismalaya

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @kerismalaya we all hv limitations, time included. Let's manage time :) Pls revert final call. tQ

@Fuziah 99 : Appreciate if @AnasZubedy value the fact tht not everyone hv all the time in t world @kerismalaya we can work together with another debate.

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang TKL proposed return 2 - 1 debater, 1 expert but follow yr time suggestion - 20 m each. 5 m rebut, 20 in 4 expert-OK?

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @kerismalaya we can work together with another debate. I will need to know him personally - always good 2 hv more kakis :)

@Fuziah 99 : @kerismalaya wants me organise for me debate with dr che rosli or TLK. @AnasZubedy do u think you can work together with @kerismalaya?

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang d 2 of u, pls remember, non-political mid ground rakyat R following this -they r assessing u. Act wisely & kindly :)

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang its 2 on each sides or 1 fr both - any other ways will be seen as arrogance on yr side. So pls decide. tQ

@Fuziah 99 : @tankengliang can have 2 on his side as pro lynas. Divide the time btwen them. Just one anti lynas on my side. @anaszubedy

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 I will not do so unless Fuziah agrees. so its 3 to a team as of now.Remember,by tomorrow all 2 accept limitations tQ

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy suggest remove the 2nd speaker if @fuziah99 need additional time, but expert to remain

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 YBFuziah & Tan Keng Liang is into this becoz they care more abt d rakyat than their egos.

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Note, i will do d minor adjustments later . More important i need an email 2 confirm participation by tomorrow 6pm

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 ok, i will allocate time for rebut. May cut down time 4 speakers to 12 mins - Am good with it tQ

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy @fuziah99 no issue on my side to revert to original debate, as long as there's opportunity for both side to rebut

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 Working within limitations. U will find d format can help both parties state their case in fairness -both face similar limitations

@Fuziah 99 : Dear @AnasZubedy, by turning it into a panel, you're not doing justice to all t work put in so far.. I'll refer names of anti Lynas people

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 i am ok to add another 5 mins each to answer. Fuziah ok?

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy I would suggest if 5 minutes be given to each speaker to answer the opponent's proposition after each turn @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 We hv time limit :) I am sure u r smart enuf to summarise them into a powerful 15 mins presentation. If cant, pls get some1 2 help

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy I will propose names for the panel. I don't think 15 minutes suffice for me to explain 3 & half years of work against Lynas..

@Anaszubedy: @@fuziah99 @tankengliang can revert 2 normal debate of 7-8 mins plus 4 -5 minutes wrap up - pls revert before this evening. d experts remains

@Fuziah 99 : Dear @AnasZubedy: I think you hv got the format of the debate not in the context I had proposed. it's now a panel of speakers. @tankengliang

7 March 2012

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Utk menegakkan kebenaran, M confident that YBFuziah&TKL will be able 2 park their ego aside&debate with maturity:)

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 cool :) I hope u 2 can get really good experts on yr side of d debate :) I will get an environmentalist to assist me

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy Thank you. I will revert on the proposal before Friday @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @ameermydin do u know that d @fuziah99 & @tankengliang Lynas debate originated fr yr tweet 2 d 2 of them? :)

@Anaszubedy: Update on @fuziah99 & @tankengliang Lynas debate ; -

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Pls go thru in detail d updates & revert confirmation by friday 6pm.Panellist by wed 12 noon tQ t.co/m7kt2yo6

@Tankengliang: @AnasZubedy I'm ok with that @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 agreed :)

@Tankengliang:@AnasZubedy confirm terms/format/date on Friday. Name of partner + expert next Wednesday @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 I am ok with 7 days fr today. Fuziah?

@Tankengliang:@AnasZubedy I would suggest if both side confirm terms/format/date on Friday. Details of partner + expert within 7 days @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 I will update debate format latest by tomorrow a.m. Pls read carefully&follow thru details strictly. Peace, tQ

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 she suggested 3 panellist each. Including 1 subject expert. Both sides will need to follow. Will firm up format. tQ

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy Pls get @fuziah99 to confirm the format. Does she want a partner? Will let her decide

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 @drdzul up 2 Fuziah. She knows what she is doing. I am looking 4ward 2 find out who R d experts from each side :)

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy Both sides must have equal number of ppl. So, @fuziah99 shud also get a partner eg @drdzul + 1 expert. Is that ok?

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Fuziah CONFIRMED earlier. Both sides can prepare. 1 + 1 expert. TKL, many request TLK, up2u. All d best !!!

@Tankengliang: kalau @fuziah99 nak tarik diri dari debat dgn saya yg sebelum ini dipersetujui, harap terus terang. Jgn perhabis masa org lain @anaszubedy

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 astro awani 501 interested in our debate, did a promo recording earlier. Kini Trending (abt tweets) today 815-30 tQ

@Anaszubedy: @wansaiful @tankengliang @fuziah99 Wan, i would like 2 learn fr u, how can u make this debate a success? I will support IDEAS if u r serious

@Anaszubedy: @wansaiful @tankengliang @fuziah99 Perhaps we both can throw in talent , time & $. I M willing 2 invest. If ok, i will get my PA 2 contact u

@Anaszubedy: @wansaiful @tankengliang @fuziah99 Perhaps we both can throw in talent , time & $. I M willing 2 invest. If ok, i will get my PA 2 contact u

@Tankengliang: suggest @fuziah99 make up her mind. Why shift goal post on daily basis? @anaszubedy

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy did I say I'm pulling out? I said TKL shud make way for someone senior!! @aminiskandar @tankengliang @wansaiful @tilianker

@Anaszubedy: @aminiskandar @fuziah99 @tankengliang @wansaiful if fuziah pull out of debating TKL, i will try 2 organize with @tilianker - since she is ok

@Anaszubedy:@fuziah99 sis, u got to make up ur mind. U can back out if u want. It's ur call @anaszubedy @wansaiful

@Fuziah 99 : If @AnasZubedy still insist on@tankengliang. Any takers to organize debate with someone more senior @wansaiful? Don't cancel this one lagi.

@Anaszubedy: @dr_joycelee @tankengliang @fuziah99 Joyce, tx 4 yr feedback. i hope fuziah invite u 2b part of her 30 team mates. Love to hear yr POA, tQ

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Unless u want to pull out,no more jostling fr now on, tQ. Format remains 3 panellist each. details will b updated

@Fuziah 99 : @tankengliang we're still in the process of giving feedback on the rules? @anaszubedy

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 sis, no issue if u want pull out. I only accepted invitation from @anaszubedy Pls make up mind. Your call

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Final call. If either of u donot furnish d name of team by fri 6 pm, including an expert - meaning u pull out, tQ

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 To me on general, any rules that's fair to both + presence of 1 expert to speak if fine with me @anaszubedy

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @wansaiful Fuziah, u need 2 decide, u ok with earlier agreement or u want 2 pull out? Yr idea of 3 panelist is good .pls decide.TQ

@Fuziah 99 : If @AnasZubedy still insist on@tankengliang. Any takers to organize debate with someone more senior @wansaiful? Don't cancel this one lagi.

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @Flatfishism @wansaiful @tankengliang TKL can form his own team, U yrs. Respect each other, pls. Revert by friday 6 pm, tq, salam

@Fuziah 99 : Get a more cnfident pro lynas to debate! RT @AnasZubedy: @Flatfishism @wansaiful @fuziah99 @tankengliang Fuziah/TKL r u game in allowing yr experts debate 4 u?

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @wansaiful @tankengliang @tilianker I have conscience. Both of u R d original 2 who agreed. Any other way now is beyond my ethics

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang @tilianker TKL & TLK, i leave it 2u2. Fuziah, who is yr partner. Also TKL & Fuziah, name of expert by friday please

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy:Appreciate if u can finalise the pro lynas debater & date of the debate @wansaiful has got a point @tankengliang @tilianker

@Anaszubedy: @AnasZubedy why are u so adamant to have TKL? Organise a Good Debate! That's your challenge! @wansaiful @tankengliang @tilianker

@Fuziah 99 : @fuziah99 @wansaiful @tankengliang @tilianker I have conscience. Both of u R d original 2 who agreed. Any other way now is beyond my ethics

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang pick 1 u feel can assist u best. TKL will have d same problem. Yr expert can gather fr all d others, so must TKL's

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy my experts are from various subspecialities in public health, environmental engineers, chemical engineers, etc. @tankengliang

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Request for 3 panelist each by fuziah. Am considering. Will revert with final format within 2 days. Peace, TQ

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy I said panggil tilianker sekali! Sbb. I xnak debat bnyak kali. Unless @tankengliang makes way for tilianker. Then back to 2.

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Do all yr thinking, planning. But be sure to provide names 4 yr team + experts by friday 6 pm. Have a good day, tQ

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Fuziah,d expert's presentation will interest d middle ground - d format is helpful in making debate stronger tQ

@Anaszubedy: @jasonbhlee @fuziah99 @tankengliang YB, is jason 1 of yr team member?i will need d names/IC of d 30 who R coming with u 4 permission 2 enter

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy my experts are from various subspecialities in public health, environmental engineers, chemical engineers, etc. @tankengliang

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Request for 3 panelist each by fuziah. Am considering. Will revert with final format within 2 days. Peace, TQ

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @jasonbhlee @tankengliang I dont play God & claim 2know what is in yr hearts, nor do i know u 2 personally. D debate will tell tQ

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy: @jasonbhlee has got a point. If you can get me tilianker, better. He also has dared me to debate! @tankengliang

5 March 2012

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang goodnite, tQ 4 caring 4 Malaysia in yr own ways. All d best in forming yr team. Looking forward 2 work with u 2 :)

@Fuziah 99 : Yes. Do it LIVE!! RT @mrzebbo: @AnasZubedy @tankengliang can we make this debate live on the net? I volunteer to arrange whatever necessary

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @mrzebbo @tankengliang pls read the entire blog entry. It will be streamed, videoed, uploaded, debate will be written verbatim too

@Anaszubedy: @mrzebbo @fuziah99 @tankengliang yes, it will be live - it will be streamed :)

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Fuziah,d expert's presentation will interest d middle ground - d format is helpful in making debate stronger tQ

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy the experts should be present as resource person during Q&A session. The debate is between myself and @tankengliang

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang will look into dates and revert tomorrow . Pls decide your expert panellist and revert by friday. tQ and Peace

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy do it in March. Parliament starts 12th March. Any mondays to thurdays March before the end of March. @tankengliang

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang D debaters will find ways to put all key points in 20 mins. D Experts another 20 mins each. TQ

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy I have factual slide presentation. Even 20 minutes is not enough actually. @tankengliang

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang TKL, agree?

@Fuziah 99 : 20 minutes each side. RT @AnasZubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang pls propose, tQ

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang pls propose, tQ

@Fuziah 99 : The time given to each side is too short. RT @AnasZubedy: The YB Fuziah - @tankengliang Lynas debate proposal format

@Tankengliang: Ok RT @AnasZubedy @fuziah99 TKL/Fuziah -can we stop d tweets on this 4 awhile until debate proper. I M sure both sides will give their best

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 TKL/Fuziah -can we stop d tweets on this 4 awhile until d debate proper. I M sure both sides will give their best :)

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 The YB Fuziah - Tan Keng Liang Lynas debate proposal format - pls feedback asap tQ

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 also hope u will come out with facs & scientific evidence from qualified experts. Neither do I want to waste my time @AnasZubedy

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 I will write a quik overview/rules/approach post it at my blog - send comments 2 my email. We can make it good :)tQ

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 sis, u decide.... I accept because @AnasZubedy invited me. I don't run away. What about you?

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Great, I will work on it , thank you people :)

@Fuziah 99 : @AnasZubedy: did I ever say otherwise? I have been very consistent. Quiet sbb bnyak kerja. Not full time kacau org mcm our @tankengliang

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang Dear Fuziah & TKL - It will be good to stop accusing each other & get 2 d crux of d issue - Yes or No to a debate tQ

@Fuziah 99 : Cukup lah tipu tu!RT@tankengliang: @AnasZubedy I have no issue. Q is @fuziah99 Advise to get her to confirm..may pull out. Biasalah for them

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Are u 2 really serious abt d debate. If yes, I will get my team 2 start d leg work.Fuziah, pls confirm TQ

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy Let's wait for @fuziah99 She need to confirm first ....never know what excuse she may give again

3 March 2012

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 will do - fuziah, pls foreward me yr email add. Can both of u also decide on yr expert support -1 person only pls TQ

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy pls give me dates after @fuziah99 confirm. Will make arrangement to KL

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 TKL and Fuziah, let's make it easy 4 thi to happen, put aside all d macho comments till then :) thanks

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy ok. Noted. Tq @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @hafidzbaharom @fuziah99 @jasonbhlee @tankengliang @tilianker i would like 2 detach lynas fr politics - just the truth &facts fr both sides

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 I have received email fr TKL, Fuziah, will be glad to have yours too. I will get back by mon or tuesday with format

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy I'm agreeable in KL. Sorry can't email as I don't have access to my email now. I have DM my email a/c @fuziah99

@Anaszubedy: @hafidzbaharom @fuziah99 @jasonbhlee @tankengliang @tilianker keep politics out, it can be anywhere. Truth has no geographical boundaries:)

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 I have yet to receive an email fr either of u. Pls send email agreeing 4 the debate , thanks

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 Kuala Lumpur. It's easier. Let's move forward @anaszubedy

@Fuziah 99 : TLK mmg takut debat di Ktn. RT @tankengliang: @tilianker agree debate with @fuziah99 should be in KL @philipgolingai @anaszubedy

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang it will be good to listen to experts too - for & against lynas - or at least as a panellist 4 question time.

@Fuziah 99 : Siapa yg nak debate? The expert ke?RT @AnasZubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Fuziah, u did say u r willing to debate with any1 fr other side. I suggest each side shud also have 1 expert speaker

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang cool fuziah, i look forward :)

@Fuziah 99 : Why you need to cover TLK? Takut ke dia? RT @tankengliang: @anaszubedy There u see bro....not that I don't want debate @fuziah99

@Fuziah 99 : No worries bro. RT @AnasZubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Fuziah, u did say u r willing to debate with any1 fr other side. I suggest each side shud also have 1 expert speaker

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Fuziah, u did say u r willing to debate with any1 fr other side. I suggest each side shud also have 1 expert speaker

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 write an agreement email, i will write a balanced proposal. 2 or fr each side- must have expert point of view 2 tQ

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy she @fuziah99 now want a Minister from MOSTI ....she need to make up her mind

@Fuziah 99 : Arrange debate with Menteri MOSTI la. RT @AnasZubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 i am waitig for both emails and will organize come monday :)

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 yes, if i am moderating i will cut short any politics fr any sides. Only facts & data will be allowed.

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy if only @fuziah99 can understand that. Look into the issue & politics aside

@Anaszubedy: @tilianker @PhilipGolingai @tankengliang @fuziah99 i have yet receive yr email. Pls email me at anas@zubedy.com . Ti versus Fuziah is it?

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 let's cut out d politics & small issues like venue, we deal with tots, facts & truth - anywhere neutral is good:)

@Fuziah 99 : TLK berani cakap blakng saja. RT @jasonbhlee: I always think tilianker shd debate x a worthless goon fm Gerakan. @tankengliang @anaszubedy

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 not covering for @tilianker. thought he was too hot for u too handle....so, @anaszubedy offering me as easy meat for u :)

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy There u see bro....not that I don't want debate @fuziah99

@Fuziah 99 : TLK mmg takut debat di Ktn. RT @tankengliang: @tilianker agree debate with @fuziah99 should be in KL @philipgolingai @anaszubedy

@Fuziah 99 : Tak nak buat di Kuantan? Takut? RT @tankengliang: @fuziah99 I always speak on facts & rely scientific evidence from qualified expert. Will u do the same? if yes, then see u in KL @anaszubedy

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy Bro, u can now understand why debates with @fuziah99 on Lynas won't happen

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy I have DM my email to u. But pls check with @fuziah99 She has been silent

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 i am waitig for both emails and will organize come monday :)

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy did @fuziah99 say ok?

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 Pls email me your contact info 2 arrange dates & details. TKL, pls decide who is yr rep anas@zubedy.com

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy No issue if u organize.....but advise to consult @fuziah99 Never what she may end up saying. Thanks

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 TKL and Fuziah, this is great. TJL, who is representing your side? Do u guys want me to organize?

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang @ameermydin TKL is suggesting that you say u r willing to debate but fizzles out when they agree

@Fuziah 99 : I hv always agreed. Just get somebdy to orgnse. RT @Nantha77: "@AnasZubedy: @fuziah99 @tankengliang @ameermydin ...

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy Pls get @fuziah99 to confirm, if that's what she wants

@Fuziah 99 : Enlighten what, bro? RT @AnasZubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 @ameermydin fuziah, can u enlighten me here , thanks

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang @fuziah99 @ameermydin fuziah, can u enlighten me here , thanks

@Tankengliang: @anaszubedy to b fair @fuziah99 she previously agreed debate but nothing happen. Agreeing 2 debate & actually debating r 2 different thing

@Tankengliang: @AnasZubedy She @fuziah99 wants to debate? i heard that many times but end up nothing.... @ameermydin

@Anaszubedy: @ameermydin @tankengliang fuziah tweeted me saying he is willing to debate with anyone …

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 Expert evidence from nuclear science expert given as certain irresponsible Pakatan ppl alleged as if Lynas = nuclear plant

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 wow....so many experts....but did any of them say Lynas dangerous to human if managed properly? Pls enlighten, if it's true

@Fuziah 99 : @tankengliang Why does Lynas only put frwrd nuclear physicist? Why don't consult epidiomologist? Toxicologist? Chemical Process Engrs? Environmental Engrs? Geologist? HIA experts? Don't you want to know why ?? @DrDzul

@Fuziah 99 : I've been advised not to entertain u bro. Too bad lah. U wasted your time untuk kacau saja!! RT @tankengliang: adakah Pakatan akan mengkritik #Lynas kalau pelaburan oleh syarikat asing tersebut dibawa masuk ke negara oleh Pakatan? @fuziah99 @drdzul

@Fuziah 99 : And if you don't understnd what multi faceted means, go and study first. Then only we talk. RT @tankengliang: @fuziah99 sis,if u willing accept scientific evidence from qualified experts,ur perception on Lynas may differ from Pakatan. See Dr Rosli

@Fuziah 99 : I told you many times that it's a multi faceted issue. But you fail to understnd or refuse to understnd! RT @tankengliang: @fuziah99 sis,if u willing accept scientific evidence from qualified experts,ur perception on Lynas may differ from Pakatan. See Dr Rosli

@Tankengliang: @fuziah99 sis,if u willing accept scientific evidence from qualified experts,ur perception on Lynas may differ from Pakatan. See Dr Rosli

@Fuziah 99 : Ngan MB lah. :-) RT @Keris7Lok: Ngan @tilianker bleh yb? Kalau bran lah.. RT @fuziah99: Saya dah ajak jugak..RT @kerismalaya: apsal nk gaduh ... http://t.co/SUh90t5i

25 February 2012

@Fuziah 99 : Saya dah ajak jugak..RT @kerismalaya: apsal nk gaduh pasal lynas,kita ajak yb @fuziah99 debat dgn mp hulu langat.. Pr vs PR OK x @keris7lok @izizree

@Anaszubedy: @tankengliang bro, its not pakatan, its PKR & DAP, pls be specific. PAS is not 4 it. Its fuziah's plan to retain her seat probably :)

@Tankengliang: from #lynas issue, we can see how Pakatan refuse to produce scientific evidence from qualified expert to back their allegation #politics

@Anaszubedy: @fuziah99 @kerismalaya Fuziah, that's cool. Will u debate with d title i suggested?

@Fuziah 99 : Dah lama saya ajak debat. RT @kerismalaya: @AnasZubedy hmm.. Setuju.. Tp apa kata kita penuhi keinginan PR yg suka berdebat ni dgn ajak yb @fuziah99 brdebat pasal lynas

@Anaszubedy: @kerismalaya @fuziah99 Boleh, tajuk debat mesti " Mana mesti di utamakan, anti-rokok/alkohol/judi atau anti lynas :)

@Anaszubedy @Fuziah 99 @Tankengliang:

Update on YB Fuziah & Tan Keng Liang LYNAS debate

UPDATES on YB Fuziah Salleh & Tan Keng Liang Debate:

The Lynas Advance Materials Plant (LAMP) project – Pros and Cons

To recap:

I came across the debate on Twitter between YB Fuziah Salleh and Tan Keng Liang on the Lynas plant issue. Both sides were already Tweeting about their willingness to debate and I offered to be the moderator and organizer to move the debate out of Twitter into reality.

Now the next step is to put things in order. To recap, the purpose of the debate is:

1. To find out the truth about the Lynas plant issue;
2. To detach the issue from politics and look squarely at the facts;
3. To provide a neutral and balanced platform for factual information to be aired.

Updates on the Debate Format

We have taken propositions from both sides as best as we could based on the debate format previously released here - http://letusaddvalue.blogspot.com/2012/03/yb-fuziah-salleh-tan-keng-liang-debate.html

YB Fuziah suggested

i) that more time should be given for speakers

ii) to add one more panelist to each side

We have agreed to these requests. The organizer has the final word on the following format and conditions and these will no longer be open to discussion.

Debate Format

What?

Debate Title:

The Lynas Advance Materials Plant (LAMP) project – Pros and Cons

There will be three panelists in each team - Two debaters and one industry expert. In the interest of time, each debater will be apportioned 15 minutes, and each expert will be given 20 minutes.

The format will be as follows:

· First speaker proposition – 15 minutes

· First speaker opposition – 15 minutes

· Second speaker proposition – 15 minutes

· Second speaker opposition – 15 minutes

· Expert on opposition side – 20 minutes

· Expert on proposition side – 20 minutes

· Questions from the floor

Guidelines

In order to allow for a substantial debate session and remove any unnecessary repetitions, we recommend the following guidelines:

1. Technical and scientific facts and figures, issues of radioactivity, biochemical effects of rare earth metals on humans, etc. best be handled by experts in the field as scientific backup to the debate on both sides.

2. We suggest that the other two speakers focus on these key areas.

• Do we have the following adequately in place to allow for safe setting up and running of a rare earth refinery plant?

i. Processes and administrative systems – Are they tight enough to ensure no complications before, during and after plant is set up?

ii. Legislation – Are our existing laws adequate to support safety and deter any wrongdoing? Do we have enough law enforcement bodies to deal with issues that may arise in dealing in this industry?

iii. Procedures and standards, monitoring mechanisms, maintenance cycles etc. – What do we have in place and are they good enough?

· What are the role of politicians on all sides to ensure minimal risk to people and what are the checking mechanisms to make sure its followed through? Is it being followed in the Lynas case?

· The impacts of the project:

i. Economic impact?

ii. Technological impact i.e. transfer of technology?

iii. Business-related impact?

iv. Environmental impact?

v. Social impact?

vi. Global impact?

· Lessons from the past – Asian Rare Earth case in Bukit Merah. What have we learnt from it, what steps, systems, processes have we put in place to ensure the mistakes that caused it is in no way repeated. How far have we corrected the misgivings? Will it happen again?

Who?

Proposition:

1) Tan Keng Liang

2) *Second speaker

3) *Expert Panelist

Opposition:

1) YB Hajjah Fuziah Salleh

2) *Second speaker

3) *Expert Panelist

*Both teams shall choose their own speakers and expert panelist and are free to organize their own teams.

With interest to the subject at hand, the second speaker should preferably be an environmentalist. The Expert panelist must be credible and their credentials must be furnished.

• Please submit the names of team members plus experts by 14 March 2012, Wednesday, 12 noon via e-mail to anas@zubedy.com.

***

Audience: By invitation only. Each side will be apportioned a maximum of 30 seats for supporters.

• We will request each side to register the names and I.C. numbers of their 30 supporters at a later date.
• Another 30 seats will be allocated for media representatives.
• Registered audience will be allocated numbered seats. No last minute changes will be entertained.

Where?

Debate will be held at zubedy’s training suite in Kuala Lumpur. Address as follows:

Zubedy (m) sdn. bhd.

Level 3, Wisma W.I.M.

7 Jalan Abang Hj Openg

Taman Tun Dr. Ismail

60000 Kuala Lumpur.

When?

Because it will be a rather lengthy session, the debate must be held on a weekend. We have decided on a Saturday morning. Taking into account scheduling, time to prepare, etc. we maintain either one of these proposed dates:

• 14^th April 2012 or 5^th May 2012

How?

REMINDER:

• The debate session will be STRICTLY NON-POLITICAL. Both sides and their supporters are forbidden to bear anything with political connotations, e.g. T-shirts, placards, etc. The whole session will be held in a straightforward setting, conducive for the uncovering of facts, figures and truth. Both parties MUST ensure that no gathering be allowed to take place at, in the vicinity, or in relation to this debate.
• Speakers, experts and audience must keep to the issue of the pros and cons of the Lynas Advance Materials Plant (LAMP) project. Any arguments brought forth must directly address the issue at hand.

***

Off-site Viewing & Participation:

• The debate, presentation by experts and question & answer session will be streamed ‘live’ on an online platform.
• There will be ‘live’ Twitter updates. We will also receive questions via Twitter for the Question/Answer session.
• The debate, presentations and question session will be recorded in video form. A verbatim transcription of the debate will be made for future reference.
• Organizers are considering producing a booklet of the contents discussed and generated in this debate session. Costs will be borne by us; any profit will be redirected to a related cause (to be decided).

***

YB Fuziah Salleh and Tan Keng Liang are requested to indicate their confirmation for the debate via an official e-mail to anas@zubedy.com, by this Friday (9 March 2012), 6.00 p.m. Failure to do so, unless with good reason, will be considered as a pull out.

Names of team members and expert panel must be submitted by Wednesday, 14 March 2012, 12 noon.

Anas Zubedy

Why we must read History

When you read some western commentators’ take on state capitalism today, one may have the wrong impression that the West has embraced Adam Smith from the very beginning and never had to rely on state protection in growing their economy and achieving their economic success. The truth however will show the opposite.

Let me explain.

Adam Smith Vs Friedrich List

“Americans persist in thinking that Adam Smith’s rules for free trade are the only legitimate ones. But today’s fastest growing economies are using a very different set of rules. Once, we knew them – knew them so well that we played by them, and won. Now we seem to have forgotten.” James Farlow

The Anglo-American system of economics and politics, like any other system, rest in certain principles or beliefs. Basically, the world of Adam Smith. However, instead of seeing their system as one of many systems, Britons and Americans tend to elevate their version of political-economics almost to the level of a religion.

Outside United States and Britain, however, the Anglo-American world of Adam Smith is but one theory amongst several theorists who had important ideas about organizing the economy. For example, during the Meiji era from 1868-1912, Japanese scholars, individualist, industrialist and administrators while ‘shopping’ for a model for development found Friederich List’s the German economist and some other contributors’ theories about how economies grew more persuasive than the laissez-faire teachings of Adam Smith. Malaysia, just like many other East Asian economies adopted the Japanese model.

Smith’s policy of laissez-faire indicates a belief that the nation’s economy functions best when it is free from government intervention by what popularly known as the ‘invisible hand’. List suggested a government policy that is more paternalistic. Individuals might not automatically choose the best action or will act with complete rationale. As such the state must also be concerned with the processes as well as the results of the economy. In other words, society did not automatically move from farming to small industries then jump to major industries, just because millions of small merchants were making decisions for themselves.

If every person put his money where the return is the greatest, the money might not automatically go where it would do the nation best. For it to do so, it requires a plan, a push, or exercise of a central power. As such, in List’s view, economic policies will be good or bad depending on how far it is in the national economic interest, that is, national interest as compared to other nations.

How did List come to these theories? He drew his hypothesis heavily on the history of America and Britain. Yes, you heard me right - American and Britain’s. Didn’t the Americans reach their heights in economic power via laissez fair and opening of the market as they seem to claim today? Not really.

Serious studies by Fallow and other economic historians like, William Lazonick, Thomas McCraw, Geffrey Perret etc will show otherwise.

They suggested that none of the major economies today like America, Britain, Germany nor Japan conformed to today’s model of ‘getting-prices right’ and putting the consumer’s welfare first as their early model for development. All had to ‘cheat’ somehow to succeed. In other words, when their economies were growing and still developing, the countries had no time for laissez faire.

America for example, only began to preach laissez faire to the rest of the world after it had grown strong. The traditional American support and portrayal to worldwide free trade and laissez faire (as the secret of its success) is quite recent – and not telling the whole truth. A phenomenon made popular since after the Second World War.

Prior to that, from economic activities like steel and arms industries, to transportation and agriculture etc. it was more so directed by the state. In short, America took steps and actions and did not wait for them to occur. They deliberately promoted the results they desired. Tariff, was a potent weapon. Similarly, the nineteenth-century British began advocating laissez faire and free trade after their economic development had already achieved a position of strength to withstand and benefit from open competition.

In summary, what America and Britain did while industrializing is not what they have been telling the world about industrialization today. Commenting on the ‘Asian model’, Farlow stressed,

“Today’s Americans and Britons may not like this new system, which makes their economic life more challenging and confusing than it would otherwise be. They are not obliged to try to initiate its structure, which in many ways fits the social circumstances of East Asia better than those of the modern United States or Britain. But, the English-speaking world should stop ignoring the existence of this system and stop pretending that it doesn’t work.”

It is not a surprise for student of economics that Joseph Schumpeter who popularized the term ‘creative destruction’ in economics never lectured on his own theories despite entreaties from his students and colleagues. Some scholars suggested that he felt that in the last analysis, his formulations were inadequate. However, everyone who is interested in economics must come to grip with him. Not only because of what he accomplished within the discipline, but because in his very achievements he demonstrated its limitation. Thus, it is interesting to note that Shumpeter towards the end of his long career as an economist, contemplated that if he were to be given a second chance to start all over again, he would have devoted his life to studying economic history instead of economic theory or statistics.

Economic history is very telling. It can help us debunk some very strong beliefs and open our minds to other alternatives.

Anas Zubedy

Kuala Lumpur